Podcasts

In this penultimate episode of Season 4, Shane and Alcine explore the contours of Culturally Sustaining Pedagogies with the illustrious Dr. Django Paris. Their conversation explores the ideas of shared communities and solidarities across difference, intersectionality, and chosen kinship. We learn how Django’s experiences of reading, writing, and art as a little person inform his scholarship and remind him “what it means to keep that voice and dedication to expression” as a scholar. We unpack the central tenets of Culturally Sustaining Pedagogy, including CPS as a pedagogical expression of both community care and the abolitionist ethos, “We keep us safe.” Finally, this intimate fireside chat uplifts the student-led movements for a Free Palestine that have emerged across the U.S. and beyond as spaces of abundance that resist a scarcity mindset. Don’t miss this groundbreaking, heartstring-tugging conversation with one of today’s educational dreamers and thought leaders.

For Further Learning:

• To learn more about Dr. Paris and his scholarship, click here.
• You can find his book Education in Movement Spaces: Standing Rock to Chicago Freedom Square at Routledge Press and the book series Culturally Sustaining Pedagogies Book Series at Teachers’ College Press.
• Dr. Paris’s new conversations series can be found at An Educational Otherwise
• To learn more about the Popular University for Gaza at UW, click here.

In this beautiful conversation with BC-based education leader Jo Chrona, we step into Jo’s childhood as a voracious reader with a love of the land. We visit Jo on the bone-shaped, forested island of Haida Gwaii where she first learned the value of taking a pause to breathe in and out. From there, we visit the First People’s Principles of Learning, which Jo helped to author and describes as a “framework” for instructional decision-making. We engage in an important conversation about how to best use large-scale standardized data as a mechanism for moving toward equity, in which Jo offers guiding principles: it must not be high-stakes or negatively impact students’ wellbeing, and it must be a way to hold ourselves accountable for racialized disparities. We explore the interconnectedness between various parts of the education system, including teacher prep, curriculum, and student learning, accessing a window into the future from BC’s forward-moving approaches. Through this dynamic conversation, Jo helps us reframe the “achievement gap”, emphasizing that it is about the system, not the learner. Finally she challenges us to ensure we never homogenize groups of students, but rather get to know who our learners are through their stories. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss this enlightening glimpse of the future!

For Further Learning:

• Visit https://luudisk.com/ to learn more about Jo Chrona’s work.
• Explore the First Peoples Principles of Learning (FPPL)
• Other podcasts featuring Jo Chrona:
  • Brave New Teacher, Ep. 159
  • Free Range Humans, Ep 57
• Additional Professional Learning Resources for Learning In Indigenous Education:
  • Continuing Our Learning Journey: A professional learning experience (videos and workshop facilitator's guide) for educators on how to include authentic Indigenous knowledge, perspectives, and content in BC’s curriculum.
  • Pulling Together: A series of resource guides developed to support systemic change in post-secondary education.

From West Philly to Stanford University to becoming a field-shifting scholar, Dr. GLB is here to drop the mic for Street Data Pod’s Season 4. We learn about Little Gloria and her largely positive educational experience growing up in Philadelphia before attending a Historically Black College or University (HBCU). We get the inside scoop on her groundbreaking research as a post-doc at Stanford, including what happened when she flipped the dominant, deficit-based research paradigms and asked, “What’s right with Black kids?” From there, GLB enlightens us around the core tenets of culturally relevant pedagogy, which starts with a set of beliefs about children and families (not practices!) and a willingness to interrogate knowledge. Finally, we talk about the transformative value of focusing on the “big ideas” of one’s discipline versus the millions of little facts that suck the life out of so much curriculum. To continue our exploration of pedagogies of student voice, GLB takes us to Matamoros, México where a science teacher with few resources in an “underperforming” region breathes life into his content by believing in the brilliance of his students and building an experiential learning simulation. Don’t miss this phenomenal episode!

For Further Learning:

• Here is a recent article by Dr. Ladson-Billings: “I’m Here for the Hard Re-Set: Post Pandemic Pedagogy to Preserve Our Culture”
• Here’s a trailer for Radical, the movie Dr. Ladson-Billings referenced as an example of culturally responsive pedagogy in classrooms.
• At the time of the recording, Dr. Luis Moll just transitioned into being an ancestor. We want to honor his brilliant contributions to our field by sharing an article on his seminal theory of funds of knowledge.

In this double-header, Alcine and Shane close out Season 4 by talking with Dr. Sawsan Jaber, internationally known educator and consultant. Sawsan shares her heart, her story, and her legacy as a descendant of Nakba survivors, helping listeners consider how centering Palestinian students helps us “lift all boats” and create more radically inclusive classrooms. From this powerful exchange, Alcine and Shane shift into a Season 3 reflection, offering moments that stayed with them and digging into Alcine’s wealth of knowledge on transformative assessment as well as Shane’s forthcoming book project, Pedagogies of Voice–for which Sawsan is a contributing writer. They close by previewing a slight shift in podcast rhythm for the upcoming Season 4, which will launch in February!

For Further Learning:

• Get your copy of Street Data HERE. Use code STREETDATA for a 20% discount.
• Want to try creating a grad profile or vision of a learner for your classroom, department, school or district? Here is Envision Learning Partners’ (ELP) Grad Profile quality criteria.
• If you’d like to learn more about Envision Learning Partners and the work that Alcine does there, visit ELP at www.envisionlearning.org.
• Listen to Episode 24: “Get Off Your Pedestal!” and Other Brilliant Advice from High School Student Leaders Ari and Harshan
• Link the Episode 4: “What Does it Mean to Freedom Dream?”: Disrupting Traps and Tropes with Dr. Jamila Dugan
• Link to Episode 12: “We Made Classrooms Public Spaces” with Jessica Huang and Matt Alexander

In this beautiful conversation, Alcine and Shane embrace storientation to hear Dr. Montessa Muñoz’s journey from a young Latina mother to a school and district administrator, and what it has meant for her to be a role model for students who “look just like me.” We unpack the problem with making decisions for and about students based on satellite data alone and explore the “hack” of “students-as-consultants”... What happens when a bunch of school administrators are asked to sit in the back of the room and simply listen as 8-10 students talk about district-wide data on attendance and “achievement”? According to Montessa, the experience was “amazing… there were administrators in the back who were crying.” They also discuss the powerful, agentic experience of students serving on a Kiva Panel and Montessa’s radical dreams for assessment: to center student voice into a truly balanced assessment system.

For Further Learning:

• Assessment Leadership: Leading a Balanced, Comprehensive Assessment System to Improve Teaching and Learning by Jessica Arnold and Robert Sheffield, with Chelsea Talakoub

In this re-release of Episode 7, Alcine and Shane to listen and learn from Dr. Kevin Godden and Dr. Perry Smith, former Superintendent and Assistant Superintendent of the Abbotsford School District near Vancouver. Through one-inch windows into an evolving system, the conversation distills the role of deep listening in school transformation. We talk about Kevin’s first day of school in Canada as a Jamaican immigrant, confronting the ugliness of racism, and his mom’s messaging that restored him. We learn Perry’s journey of wanting to wear moccasins to school as a young Indigenous student in Abbotsford with virtually no representation around him. And we think about what it means to carry the heart of a teacher and lead like a teacher. Join us.

For Further Learning

• Learn more about the Deeper Learning Dozen, a community of practice that supports superintendents to transform their school districts in ways that create equitable access to deeper learning experiences and outcomes.
• Get a copy of Perry’s beautiful children’s book, Powwow Dancing with Family.

In this delightful dialogue with the wizard behind Cult of Pedagogy, Jennifer Gonzalez, and middle school drama teacher Amanda Liebel, Shane and Alcine walk alongside two brilliant educators to think about service, street data, and pedagogy. You’ll learn the origin story of the magical blog and  podcast called Cult of Pedagogy. We’ll think about what it means to have a “heart of service”, as Amanda characterizes the deep work of teaching as always a reflective practice. We’ll also discuss how Shane, Jamila, and Jennifer came together to create a 9-hour free video series that tracks two teams of teachers as they move through the messiness and richness of the Street Data process! Finally, this episode offers vibrant one-inch windows into a pedagogy of student voice, including:

• How to receive difficult street data from students with an open heart
• How to take deeper risks in the classroom (for example, to “indigenize our learning spaces”)
• Why being a perfectionist works against you as a teacher
• And what it means to “walk alongside students” and listen to what they want

Enjoy this priceless conversation!

For Further Learning:

• Listen to the original Cult of Pedagogy podcast episode with Shane and Jamila, “Street Data: A Path Toward Equitable, Anti-racist Schools” (October 5, 2021)
• Access 9 hours of free professional learning in Street Data Cult of Pedagogy video series
• Listen to the follow-up Cult of Pedagogy podcast episode about this learning series with Shane, Jamila, and Amanda (January 29, 2023)

Check out the mentioned Cult of Pedagogy podcast and blog on The Big List of Class Discussion Strategies

Shane and Alcine are back with this on-FIRE conversation with Cincinnati math educators Crystal Watson and Dr. Dawn Williams who remind us that “The sun does not ask permission to shine, and neither do I.” These Black women leaders take us on a journey to understanding the type of math pedagogy that will transform and empower future generations of learners. We learn from Dr. Dawn why it’s important for leaders to create a place called home for teachers and, in turn, for students. Crystal and Dawn model a culture of listening to students as they enter classrooms, always asking, “How will that one child feel…?”, engaging in learning alongside students, all in efforts to affirm to students that the classroom is “your space”. They also teach us how to have a student-centered Data Meeting, how to support teachers to practice active listening (even when it’s uncomfortable!. They explain how anxiety specifically with math triggers fight or flight, diminished executive function, and distracting behaviors in the classroom and how building authentic and trusting relationships can help teachers guide students through that anxiety. Finally, we celebrate the truth that Black educators are “everything” while acknowledging the emotional labor of being a Black woman educational leader.

For further learning:

• Principles for the Design of Mathematics Curricula: Promoting Language and Content Development with specific Math Language routines classroom teachers can implement
• Books: The Memo and Right Within by Minda Harts on overcoming racial trauma and discrimination in the workplace

Book: Choosing to See by Dr. Pamela Seda and Kendall Brown

Public Learning, a model developed by the organization Lead by Learning, is a practice that builds awareness in educators in order to better serve their students. Public Learning is not a formula for professional development, but rather a stance and a way of being that activates everything strong educators know about teaching and learning–the need for curiosity around a learner’s experience, the role of uncertainty and complexity, and so much more. In this illuminating conversation, the founder and current leader of Lead by Learning, Jennifer Ahn and Carrie Wilson,  remind us of the power of public, reflective adult learning to create a path toward equity and antiracism in schools. These brilliant leaders help us think about what teachers need to genuinely learn and grow and how to infuse a pedagogy of voice at every level of the system.

You can follow Jennifer Ahn at Lead by Learning’s Instagram @leadbylearning_, Facebook @weleadbylearning, Twitter @Lead_byLearning, and LinkedIn at Lead by Learning.

For further learning:

• Learn more about public learning and other adult learning practices in Lead by Learning’s free playbook.
• Read stories from educators on the ground who are engaging in public learning to better support students.

Watch a webinar on how teachers are using public learning and street data to challenge dominant data narratives

In this reflective conversation, Shane and Alcine wrap up Season 2 by sharing some of their own stories, lenses, and learning around the work. You’ll hear what’s emerging on the ground as Shane and Dr. Dugan try to bring the Street Data model to life through communities of practice. You’ll consider the difference between cultural appropriation and appreciation, tapping into the brilliance of Jo Chrona’s book Wayi Wah! Indigenous Pedagogies: An Act for Reconciliation and Anti-Racist Education. We also learn more about how Alcine’s mother influenced her student-centered pedagogy and how her experiences as a good test taker during desegregation efforts in the 1980’s shaped her views on standardized testing. And we say goodbye to our original producer, the incomparable Maya Cueva, who is off to work on a new film and other projects!

For Further Learning: 

• Podcasts 
  • Cheaper Than Therapy: Avoiding Resentment
  • The Cult of Pedagogy with Jennifer Gonzalez
• Books
  • Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow by Gabrielle Zevin
  • Wayi Wah! Indigenous Pedagogies by Jo Chrona
• Articles
  • Cultivating a Pedagogy of Student Voice by Shane Safir
  • Metacognition in the Classroom: Benefits & Strategies
• Films
• Watch Maya’s film On The Divide ( https://vimeo.com/ondemand/onthedivide )

In this episode, you’ll listen at the feet of the incomparable scholar Dr. Lisa Delpit, whose books Other People’s Children and Multiplication Is for White People deeply impacted Shane and Alcine, alongside her brilliant mentee and Street Data co-author Dr. Jamila Dugan. We get a one-inch window into Dr. Delpit’s early experiences in “white teacher education” and the Open Classroom model where Black teachers’ wisdom and skill was often undervalued. We witness a beautiful exchange between Dr. Delpit and Dr. Dugan about the intergenerational work they are involved in and what it means for all of us to step into being elders in training. If you’re as confused as we are about the Science of Reading “debates”, this episode will help you shift and lift the discourse about literacy, as Dr. Delpit brings complexity and nuance, helping us all remember that while phonics is necessary, successful teachers of Black students do so much more: affirm their humanity, create relationships, make them feel a part of the literacy “club”, and elevate heir intellectual history and legacy. These leading thinkers help us envision classrooms where children have a voice and leadership roles, and schools where students begin to enter adult spaces in order to influence education. Finally, we end with a deep discussion of the Warm Demander concept and why demanding is not the same as diminishing because the love and belief in the kids has to be there first. Join us!

For Further Learning:

• The Silenced Dialogue:Power and Pedagogy in Educating Other People's Children by Lisa Delpit
• Other People’s Children: Cultural Conflict in the Classroom by Lisa Delpit
• “Multiplication is for White People”: Raising Expectations for Other People’s Children by Lisa Delpit
• Teaching When the World Is on Fire: Authentic Classroom Advice, from Climate Justice to Black Lives Matter by Lisa Delpit
• Radical Dreaming for Education Now by Dr. Jamila Dugan

Pod Squad, this episode just might make you cry. Join us as we walk through rural British Columbia and urban Baltimore, moving through the ancestral realm to Harvard board rooms to one guest’s grandma’s living room. We’ll talk about Indigenous fusion food (ever heard of Bannock French Toast?) and the pork chop dilemma of project-based learning: How do we neither undercook nor overcook the project? Also, what are the limitations of big studies and meta-research to help us understand the nuances and lasting impact of deep learning experiences. You’ll learn about Little Gail Higginbottom and what drove her to be the writer and fierce, heart-forward, equity-centered leader of Indigenous education she is today, and Little Jal Mehta’s pathway from an inquiry-based school (that his mom led!) to founding a community of 12 districts across North America that are blazing new trails for equity and deeper learning.

Equity is vulnerable work. We have to create cultural emotional spiritual safety for students, families and communities.

For Further Learning:

• To learn more about the Deeper Learning Dozen, click here.

• Get Jal and Sarah Fine’s book In Search of Deeper Learning here.

• Gail’s reflection questions, inspired by the DLD teaching that “equity is structural”:

  • How do we ensure student voice is leading this work?

  • How do we decide who to include? How do we decide who to invite?

  • How do we do that work safely?

  • How do we ensure that students who share their stories are honoured, nurtured, and empowered?

  • How do we ensure students are heard and their voices are amplified?

  • How do we ensure these voices are listened to?

  • What do we need to do to show those students that we care, that they matter, and we believe in them?

In Episode 11, Alcine and Shane get real with their dear friend and collaborator Joe Truss. Joe talks about what it was like growing up in San Francisco’s Tenderloin district in the 80’s and wondering, “Why am I finding success while my friends are not?” This experience eventually led him into the classroom where Joe illuminates the gap between the teacher he thought he was going to be versus the teacher he was in real life. Through student voice and feedback, he shifted many of his mindsets and practices, cultivating a way of being that he brought into his 6-year principalship in southeast San Francisco. Joe helps us unpack the difference between bringing a vision and co-constructing a vision with staff, the need to slow it all down, and the nefarious trap of power-hoarding that he continues to see in his work across North America. We conclude with the power of racial affinity as a space for differentiation learning and a vehicle for healing, leveraging our differences as our strengths, and understanding the need to co-conspire around shared goals.

For Further Learning:

• Visit Joe’s website https://trussleadership.com/ to learn about his services and read his many publications.
• Read Leading a District Antiracism Journey in the March 2023 issue of Educational Leadership magazine by Shane, Joe and Julie Kempkey
• Racial Affinity Groups Aren’t Racist – They are the Secret Sauce in Antiracist Schools by Joe Truss and Jenn Berkowitz
• What Happened When My School Started to Dismantle White Supremacy Culture by Joe Truss

In Episode 10, Alcine and Shane talk with thought leaders, and mother-daughter dynamic duo, Drs. Linda and Kia Darling-Hammond about their new book The Civil Rights Road to Deeper Learning: Five Essentials for Equity (Teachers College Press, 2022). Drawing on their intersections across 25 years in the field of public education, these four educators begin with a retrospective on the seminal Williams v. California lawsuit in which Shane and Linda both served as witnesses, pivoting to explore the next historic fight for equitable access. They dig into the legacy of the test-and-punish era and how testing has served as a barrier to deeper learning, and Linda drops some mind-blowing knowledge about the double discrimination baked into test questions. Finally, they dream together about equitable and just schools that elevate student voice and center performance-based assessments rather than tests.

For Further Learning

• Read Linda and Kia’s book The Civil Rights Road to Deeper Learning: Five Essentials for Equity
• Review Chapter 6 of Street Data, which profiles performance assessment

In this brief retrospective episode, Shane, Alcine and their 'Magic Millennial' producer, Maya Cueva look back at Season 1, reflecting on the moments that nested deepest in their hearts. You’ll get to hear or revisit impactful clips from guests in Season 1 and hear about what our producer Maya Cueva is up to on her other projects. The hosts also talk about current innovations from outside of education, including sobriety “quit lit” and Dr. Gabor Maté’s incredible work on childhood development, trauma and the potential lifelong impacts on physical and mental health conditions that show up daily in our schools and classrooms. As we prepare to launch Season 2 in February, Alcine invokes Dr. Jamila Dugan’s invitation in Episode 4: “How do I dream bigger and in community? Who do I need to be in community with so that my dreams become bigger?” Join us and dream with us about next-generation schools that affirm love and value every child!

For Further Learning:

• Learn about Producer Maya Cueva’s PBS project On the Divide
• Host a screening of On The Divide vía GOOD Docs! https://gooddocs.net/products/on-the-divide
• Episodes mentioned and excerpted include: https://www.onthedividemovie.com
  • • Episode 4: “What Does it Mean to Freedom Dream?”: Disrupting Traps and Tropes with Dr. Jamila Dugan
    • Episode 6: “We Need to Marginalize Standardized Testing” with Young Whan Choi
    • Episode 8: “Connecting Present to Past”: The Impact of Critical Pedagogy with Rocky Rivera and Norma Gallegos
  • If you’re interested in listening to Tales of The Town, the podcast about Oakland — listen here. You can also get tickets to the Tales of The Town film: https://www.talesofthetown.info
  • Tales of the Town Podcast : https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/introducing-tales-of-the-town-a-podcast-about-black-oakland/id1235932328?i=1000579592977
  • Get Dr. Gholdy Mohammed’s Cultivating Genius

In Episode 8, Alcine and Shane reminisce and dream with two of Shane’s former students, alumni of the BALMA Project featured in Chapter 5 of Street Data. Hip hop artist and journalist Rocky Rivera and auto technician/former paraprofessional Norma Gallegos share tales of growing up in San Francisco’s Excelsior District that are equal parts heartbreaking and heartwarming. Looking at their own trajectories as learners, Norma and Rocky help us explore what success really means when we view education as a long game rather than a test-driven shell game. With tears and joy, the conversation explores the features of what Rocky calls “intentional pedagogy”: the kinds of assignments that cultivate deeper learning, the types of instructional experiences that cultivate student agency, and the impact of access to critical literacy and a community where you feel you belong. Don’t sleep on this episode.

For Further Learning

• To follow Rocky’s work, subscribe to her Patreon, and/or get a copy of Snakeskin: Essays by Rocky Rivera, click here.
• If you’re interested in watching a 15-minute retrospective video on the BALMA Project in Chapter 5 of Street Data, click here.
• Visit Norma at Pat’s Garage in SF to get your car fixed. (or help her get a job at SFMTA if you got a hook-up!)

In Episode 7, Alcine and Shane lean in to listen and learn from Dr. Kevin Godden and Perry Smith, Superintendent and Assistant Superintendent of the Abbotsford School District near Vancouver. Through story and one-inch windows into an evolving system, the conversation distills the role of deep listening in school transformation. We talk about Kevin’s first day of school in Canada as a Jamaican immigrant, confronting the ugliness of racism, and his mom’s message. We learn Perry’s story of wanting to wear moccasins to school as a young Indigenous student, in Abbotsford himself, with virtually no representation around him. And we think about what it means to carry the heart of a teacher and lead like a teacher. Join us.

For Further Learning

• Learn more about the Deeper Learning Dozen, a community of practice that supports superintendents to transform their school districts in ways that create equitable access to deeper learning experiences and outcomes.
• Get a copy of Perry’s beautiful children’s book, Powwow Dancing with Family.

In Episode 5, Alcine and Shane talk to rural Kentucky district leader Melissa Biggerstaff. They hear her story about growing up in a district where your zip code and last name determined your opportunities. Lean in to hear about a conversation with a high school counselor that Melissa will never forget and that continues to fuel her moral imperative to this day. Finally, Melissa unpacks what it means to show up fully as a leader–to learn from and really listen to community members–and why we need to meet people where they are- especially physically- if we want to create radically inclusive institutions.

For Further Learning:

• Get a copy of Street Data on Amazon, Corwin Press, or from a BIPOC-owned local bookstore.

In Episode 4, co-author Jamila Dugan is back and giving us the inside scope on equity traps and tropes. First, we dig into how this chapter came to be (spoiler alert: from a rant!) and the conversation shifts to the luminous landscape of radical dreaming, exploring, in Jamila’s words: “What does it actively mean to freedom dream and who am I dreaming with?” Shane, Jamila, and Alcine think about how to live a life of big dreams and abundance, and the ways that hustle and grind culture often dims our dreams. Jamila shares some brilliant tips, like reverse calendaring and–drum roll–taking the email app off your phone!

For Further Learning:

• Get a copy of Street Data on Amazon, Corwin Press, or from a BIPOC-owned local bookstore.
• Read Jamila's recent EL Magazine article on Radical Dreaming here.
• Work with the Equity Traps and Tropes Inquiry Tool Jamila mentions.
• Check out Freedom Dreams: The Black Radical Imagination by Robin D.G. Kelley.